Drug Testing Welfare Recipients in Florida, Fair or Not? Pros and Cons (Updated 5-8-2012) [54*-87]

88

By My Esoteric

My Position

FOR those of you who follow my hubs, especially the political ones, I hope that you have come away with a pretty good idea of my Progressive credentials and principled but nevertheless pragmatic view toward social and political issues. I think I have expressed what I think about gun control, for it; hunting, against it; helping the poor, for it; and Obama Care, for it. What about this issue; requiring people who receive public benefits to get and pass a drug test before qualifying for the benefits. I am "all-in" for it.

And it is not because I own an alcohol and drug testing company ... with an office in Florida, lol. I really do think this is the right thing to do.

GOVERNOR RICK SCOTT - 45th Governor of Florida
GOVERNOR RICK SCOTT - 45th Governor of Florida
Source: Wikipedia

The Florida Law

THIS new law is fairly simple and straight-forward; it is a version of a similar law which was struck down by a federal court in Michigan in 2003 and requires recipients to pay for the tests before qualifying for benefits and periodically after they receive them. Beginning July 1, if you fail a drug test, you will be denied benefits for a year. If you fail it a second time you would have to wait three years before you can apply again.

In two-parent households, both adults would be tested. If there are children, benefits could be awarded to a third-party recipient, who must also be drug tested. The law will not affect the federal food stamp program. If the recipient passes the test, they get their money back. While Florida officials estimate the cost of test to be $10.00, they are probably smoking the same stuff the law wants to test for; you can get the collection done for $10 by someone who probably doesn't know what they are doing, but you still have to pay for the laboratory cost and medical review officer costs, total collection costs probably run between $37 to $65 for a legitimate collection that passes Federal Department of Transportation muster and audit.

The Pros and the Cons

THERE is very little I like about Governor Rick Scott, the Tea Party poster child of the State of Florida who won the governorship in 2010. His political positions on most everthing make me shudder and wonder how he got elected. I am pretty certain he is going to be a one-term Governer. Having said all of that, I strongly believe he is right on this issue.

Examples of the PROs being bandied about in the news media, some of which I buy, some of which I don't., are:

Governor Scott - " ... it is unfair for Florida taxpayers to subsidize drug addiction. This new law will encourage personal accountability and will help to prevent the misuse of tax dollars." "Republicans said the measure was needed because if taxpayers are screened at their place of employment, so should welfare recipients." "is that drug tests will root out welfare recipients who are using public dollars to buy drugs." Sid Dinerstein, chairman of the Palm Beach County Republican Party, said the law could have several benefits, including forcing addicts to confront their problem. It would also serve taxpayers.“If it separates an addict from public assistance then it’s a benefit to everybody, including the children of the addict, the thought of us giving tax dollars to someone who has a substance abuse problem is absurd.

Examples of some CONs are:

American Civil Liberties Union and Others - "The bill is an invasion privacy."

Howard Simon, executive Director of the ACLU of Florida - "The wasteful program created by this law subjects Floridians who are impacted by the economic downturn, as well as their families, to a humiliating search of their urine and body fluids without cause or even suspicion of drug abuse, searching the bodily fluids of those in need of assistance is a scientifically, fiscally, and constitutionally unsound policy. Today, that unsound policy is Florida law."

During debate about the law, critics pointed to a pilot testing program in Florida that was shut down in 2001 after it showed no significant difference in drug use between welfare recipients and the population at large.

State Rep. Gwen Clarke-Reed, D-Deerfield Beach, said "the new law could hurt families by delaying welfare money they rely upon". She noted," a potential welfare recipient, lacking cash, must pay for their own drug test. How are you going to have money for that?”

The only argument on the CON side I find somewhat compelling is the last one. $40 can be a lot of money to those who legitimately don't have much at all, drugs or no drugs; of course, I care about the ones that don't have drugs. I know for a fact that negative drug results can be turned around in less than 72 hours, it happens most of the time for my clients. It doesn't have to be any different here. However, the State is putting this out for competitive bid rather than let the recipients find their own facility, which will probably leave mu company out in the cold, I do know this, the kind of companies, and the one that Governor Scott, Solantic, has in trust while he is Governor, that will probably will be bidding for this work are not known for their quick turnaround. Couple that with whatever program the State puts in place to refund the money and the recipient may be waiting a while. HavingI said that though, it is not enough to sway me.

The rest of the CONs are hogwash, in my opinion. Drug testing is ubiquitous, inside of government and outside; how can it be an invasion of privacy any more?? It started back in 1988 when the Federal Department of Transportation, after being granted the authority by Congress, adopted regulations to subject people employed in "safety-sensitive" positions in the transportation industry. That is a lot of people who lost their "right to privacy" in one fell swoop. I believe the latest group, at least that I remember without researching it, are high school students who want to join extracurricular activities sponsored by their school. The Supreme Court found in the school districts favor to allow drug testing the students. Public and Private employers all over the country require pre-employment drug tests and many private companies require random drug tests in the States that allow them and sometimes Unit Sweeps, when we come in and test the whole company. I simply cannot see how a right to privacy issue can be raised unless a specific person is being targeted. It just doesn't pass the reasonableness test.

One of the CONs is that a trial run many years ago in Florida showed that drug use in the welfare population is no different than in the general population. While that surprised the heck out of me (I hate being biased and that relieves me of being burdened by one more stereotype), I am pleased to know that. However, I still have to say, big Whoopee! What difference does it make. The point of any drug test is to reduce drug use ... period. In 1988, the use of drugs in the transportation industry probably wasn't any higher than in the general population, except for maybe amphetamines, but there I go with the stereotyping again; in any case, that didn't stop DOT from implementing its regulations and with good effect, I might add. (I might write a Hub on that.)

There is nothing humiliating about a drug test today at all; saying that is simple hyperbole and Mr. Simon knows it. Drug tests are done by the hundreds of thousands a day, it seems. My company alone does about 100,000 collections a year and we are a small, but very good, company in the drug collection industry. Further, drug testing is definitely a scientifically robust policy; it has been for decades. The science behind the laboratory analysis is rock solid.

Demographic (2009)
% Who Used in Last 30 Days 
White 
8.8 
Black/African American 
9.6 
Native American/Alaskan Native 
18.3 
Asian
3.7
Latino/Hispanic
7.9
Two or Races
14.3
12-17
10.0
18-25
21.2
26-up
6.3
Male
10.8
Female
6.6
INDUSTRY (combined 2002-2004)
% WHO USED IN LAST 30 DAYS 
 
Hotel and Food Service 
16.9 
 
Construction 
13.7 
 
Arts, Entertainment, Recreation
11.6 
 
Information
11.3
 
Management, Admin, Remediation
10.9
 
Retail
9.4
 
Other Services
8.8
 
Wholesale
8.5
 
Professional, Scientific, Technical
8.0
 
Real Estate
7.5
 
Mining
7.3
 
Finance/Insurance
6.8
 
Manufacturing
6.5
 
Transportation/Warehousing
6.2
 
Agriculture, Forestry, Hunting
6.2
 
Health Care
6.1
 
Public Administration
4.1
 
Education
4.0
 
Utilities
3.8
 

My Take on Why It Drug Testing is a Good Idea

DRUG USE IN AMERICA IS UBIQUITOUS! It is everywhere in our colleges, it infects our high and middle, or as I know them junior high, schools, and even touches our elementary schools. DOT requires drug testing in the transportation industry because of the threat that drug use was found to pose there. For the same reason, private businesses, including mine, require drug tests; We prevented one cocaine user from joining our ranks this way because of our testing and, as you would think, it is pretty important for a drug collection company not to employ users.

Government surveys estimate 8.3% of Americans over the age of 12 have used illicit drugs of one sort or another in the last 30 days; that is over 20 million people! Further:

  • Of full-time employees, 8.3%use illicit drugs
  • Of part-time employees, 9.4%use illicit drugs
  • Of unemployed persons, 18.5% use illicit drugs

You also might find the two tables to right interesting and maybe a bit surprising, they were for me as they deflated a couple of stereotypes, such as the how close the rates of drug use of whites and blacks are to each other. I was pleased to see the rates in the Transportation industry down to 6.5% after being up to 11.5% in 1988 just before the implementation of mandatory drug testing.

A final piece of information I would like to present before getting into my reasoning is from a November 1999 discussion paper called "Current and Former Welfare Recipients: How Do They Differ?" by Pamela J. Loprest and Sheila R. Zedlewski of the Urban Institute. THey report that of current welfare recipients 21% are employed and the other 79% are in some stage of unemployment. such as in school or looking for work.

Putting Some Things Together

FIRST, let me state categorically that drug testing will deter drug use! All you have to do is look at the results from when the Department of Transportation implemented an industry-wide program of random drug testing; it effective cut drug use rate almost in half, from 11.5% in 1988 down to 6.2% in 2004!! Very impressive. One of our railroad clients decided to increase the random testing rates for alcohol from 50% (DOT requires only 10%) to 100% and three months later, their positive alcohol rate dropped to zero. We know it won't stay there but it will be nice while it lasts.

Next, let me point out that other data I read supports what the Florida pilot program found in that drug use among the welfare population is roughly the same as it is amongst the general population. In other words, drug use in the demographics I presented in the last section doesn't change whether you are looking at a population of people on welfare or of people not on welfare. Why that is used as an reason not to test, I don't know. The reasoning for using this line of reasoning is flawed, don't you see. It makes one huge assumption that simply is not true; the demographic make-up of the welfare population and the general population are the same ... they definitely are not.

I will focus on only one difference, the percentage of unemployed. In the general population, depending on how you measure it, it runs between 9% and around 20% today. In the welfare population, it runs around 89%; quite a difference! That is very significant because drug use amongst the unemployed at 18.5% is double that of drug use amongst the employed. I don't care how the Democrats want to cut it, and I consider myself firmly in their camp right now, drug use is endemic among those on welfare; that is one of the few things the Tea Party and Conservative have right and it must be reduced before it totally corrupts our society.

There are only three fundamental arguments the Progressives and Liberals make against instituting this program: 1) it violates a persons right to privacy, 2) it is ineffective, and 3) it will harm the children. I have already discussed each earlier but to summarize. When it comes to receiving benefits, public safety, workplace safety, private or public sponsored activities, and the like, a persons right to privacy is not inviolate. The Right to Privacy only becomes inviolate when government attempts to impose such a requirement on each and every American without some nexus to an external reason. Drug test has been proven effective time and time again, that is why I am in business and doing very well, thank you. Safeguards, as is the case with this Florida law, can be built in to protect the children.

To my way of thinking, for Democrats to pick this issue to fall on their sword over for the sake of principal is like the Conservatives falling on their sword over protecting millionaires and billionaires from tax increases; it is based on faulty logic, a misreading of the Constitution, and a dearth of pragmatism.

Putting this drug testing program into place is not only the right thing to do, it is the humane thing to do! Just think of all the lives that will be made better because of it as the rate of drug use drops and drop it will, I would bet the bank on it.

In closing, let me take this flight of fancy. Suppose each State made it a requirement to get a drug test to get a drivers license, a hair test so you can look back in time, and every time the license comes up for renewal. Do you think that would result in a significant drop in drug usage in America? I think it would. If it did, then there would be a drop in demand for drugs in general which would slow down the supply of drugs and reduce the demand at the source. Drug dealers would start going out ot business or kill themselves off fighting for the remaining business. Now, what if all States finally decided to do the right thing and start a random drug testing program at each high school and junior high? I suspect that would pass muster in the Supreme Court; drug testing students for extra-curricular activities already has. Can you just imagine the turmoil that would result up and down the drug supply chain; brings a grin to my lips.

Drug testing works folks, let's take advantage of it!!


Your Thoughts on Drug Testing Welfare Benefit Recipients

Do you think it is a good idea and legal to drug test recipients of welfare benefits?

  • YES
  • NOT
  • NOT SURE
See results without voting

UPDATE

UPDATED 12/8/2011: I RECENTLY HEARD that a Florida judge suspended the drug testing program. I will research and bring more info shortly. I was wondering why I wasn't getting any more people into my office.

UPDATED 3/20/2012: Governor Scott signed into law on March 19, 2012, a requirement that state agencies randomly test up to 10 percent of their workers once every three months. This is similar to an executive order he signed last year but, according a Politfact report, backed away from, except for prison guards, pending the outcome of a suit that the ACLU and government workers union filed. The ACLU says they plan to file suit regarding this law as well.

UPDATED 5/1/2012: My poll currently has 76 votes, the best of all of my polls to-date, which allows me to say something statistically meaningful about the results. The standard measure for these types of "horse race" polls is a Confidence Interval or "Margin of Error" (at the 95% level of confidence). The question, then, is this, "Can I say, after just 76 votes, that 72% in favor of drug testing welfare recipients is statistically bigger than the 22% who don't believe we should?" Looking at the numbers, that would seem like a silly question, but, with only 76 votes, it isn't so silly. Even if the percentages had been 57% in favor and 37,% against, a whopping 20-point difference, I couldn't tell you with a 95% level of confidence, that total population results wouldn't end up being 50/50. However, with the 72/22-split we do have at the moment, my margin of error is plus or minus 19%, meaning the percentage in favor could be as low as 51% and the percentage opposed could be as high as 41%. Clearly, those in Hubland, who like to vote in these polls, favor drug testing welfare recipients.

Just to give full disclosure, however, this poll is not a properly selected random sample where I can be pretty certain of a normal distribution. My sample is from a population who likes to vote in these polls and I don't really know for sure if it is biased in one direction or another. I do know, nevertheless, that as my sample size increases, it tends to matter less unless there is a major bias at work, and I doubt that there is.

You Know, It is really Hard to Find any Relavant E-Bay Stuff for Political Articles - So Buy Something Anyway, or at Least Look :-)

2pk Test Your Teenager for THC Drug Use In Home Test 2pk Test Your Teenager for THC Drug Use In Home Test
Current Bid: $.99
Detox Drink Detox Drink
Current Bid: $40.00
5pk Test Your Teenager for THC Drug Use In Home Test 5pk Test Your Teenager for THC Drug Use In Home Test
Current Bid: $4.25

Comments

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 7 months ago

Thanks for reading my hub and commenting Jane. While they obviously don't do that in Federal or State governments, as I said, they never tested me, which surprised me given some of the things I worked on, I strongly suspect the President does get tested, at least a pre-employment test. I am even more confident that those who work around him that hold any sort of top security clearance also get drug-tested. While I am not sure that is true of Congressman, in general, I bet those on the Intelligence and Armed Services committees do as do their staffs.

Does anybody reading this know for sure?

Also, I do know for sure that many of the agencies do drug testing, some, like the FAA, because they have to by Federal Law, others because they choose to; I know because I seen solicitations for bids come my way.

jane 7 months ago

I have no problem with drug testing, but only if they test everyone from the President of the USA all the way down to the welfare recipients. if you test one, then test them all, and no one in government can own or have interest in the company doing the testing, no bribing allowed.......

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

Thanks for whoever just voted and thank you Lea, Mr. Happy, amd Cooldad for asking great questions and making such astute opinions. This is an area I have a lot of experience in and have thought a lot about. Somewhere, in another hub, I said I am a Libra, and take the idea of balance, fairness, and justice very seriously; that is the way I try to approach most problems and issues, this one is no different; I am also a pragmatist, just so you know.

Lea, there are provisions in the law that if a single parent is positive or both parents are positive, then a third party, who must also be tested and pass, may receive the help designed for the children.

Unfortunately, I can't be very sympatheic for the case of excluding pot, even though I am for its legalization. Here is why; the individual has contral of when they get tested. If the person does not have a pot problem, then they can lay off the week or so for the THC to clear their system(; it is not unusual for someone to come into one of our offices and pay for their own tests until they come out clean before they go take a pre-employment test. I had one guy come into my VA office once a week for two-months before all the pot left his system; eithe he was a REALLY heavy user or he kept using between tests, lol; pot generally own stays around for no longer than 30 days, if that.) If they have a problem, then they won't be able to quit, and they should be caught. You do bring up a real issue that I don't have an answer for with your medical mariajuana scenario other than to say these people use with the understanding they are breaking the law and use willing to suffer the consequences if they get caught.

You are preaching to the chior regarding testing for alcohol and the same time. My rational of showing up with pot in your system applies several times over showing up with alcohol still in your system; to me that is close to saying you are an alcoholic like my mother was, my father was, and I am.

Pre-emploment drug tests, normally without alcohol, is ubiquitous in the US. After that, it depends. In the military, I think, and the Department of Transportation, meaning truck/bus drivers, railroad workers, aviation workers, coast guard, transit workers, etc do random post-accident, suspicion, and reasonble cause drug AND alcohol testing. Many companies who are not required to also do these additional tests and more start every year. Many school districts have started testing students who go out for extra-curricular activities; some want to start random testing the general student population (that will go to Supreme Court) Bottom line, it is getting harder and harder to live in the United States without being drug tested at some point in their life.

There are few things on the Conservative agenda that I agree with, but changing what had been a good welfare idea that had gone wrong was one that I did agree with. Each state implements the different parts of the welfare program differently and then there are the federal parts, like food stamps which isn't impacted by this Florida law.

Mr. Happy - I think that was my point about my federal worker example; there is no reason in the world that I can think of why people who physically work in the Pentagon, any one of our military bases, or major federal buildings, even if they aren't working in a security related job, shouldn't be under some sort of random drug testing program.

Boy, what a concept, drug testing our Congressmen, what havoc that would cause, lol. - never happen. Getting caught, is a differnt thing. First time on cocaine may or may not get jail time, depends on the State, being a Congress doesn't get you a "get out jail free card" any more in almost all jurisdictions down here.

I am no fan of President Bush II, he rates being one of the worst Presidents in America's history, but he had every right to be President because he overcame every one of those selfimposed handicaps and was up-front about it while running. That is a very different thing than a person forgoing, not losing, welfare help because they couldn't manage their drug use in such a way as to be clean at the they chose to take the drug test. I might have a different answer if the potential recipient didn't know when the test would be. Pot rarely gets you in jail. I think there is one exception, Texas, if I am not mistaken, a parking ticket gets you 30-days there, lol

Weiner needs something for sure!

Cooldad - Personally, I am for legalization of all drugs. I do not believe use should or possession of certain amounts should be a crime, period. I do believe the sale, but not the transfer, transport over a certain quantity, unlicenced manufacture, unlicenced production, and unlincenced growth of identified drugs should be a crime with severe penalties. Government should be responsibile for the acquisition and distribution process as well as help provide assistance for getting off drugs.

My main reasons are economic and crime reduction. Given that will never happen, I think pot ought to be legalized for economic and philosophical reasons.

cooldad profile image

cooldad Level 4 Commenter 11 months ago

I think maybe this could be a marijuana issue. Would people who oppose this drug testing change their stance if marijuana were excluded from the test? Personally, I have no problem with people who smoke pot. I used to smoke quite a bit and it never really affected my life negatively.

Now, I don't think anyone should use cocaine, meth, heroin, ect. Just throwing that out there. Any thoughts?

Mr. Happy profile image

Mr. Happy Level 7 Commenter 11 months ago

Mr. Esoteric, I appreciate your comments.

I suppose we do work on luck as well: "if you use in the scenario you gave and get caught, you are one of the unluckiest people in the world" - considering I did not give an impossible/unrealistic circumstance ... we should all pray for luck, I guess.

This is my main problem as I stated it before, only some people are tested and some are not like, "most federal workers; I was never tested in my 25 years of service and I worked at some pretty high levels at one time or another."

So, the people that are in charge of governing our countries; those who are representing us, who spent our tax money and so on ... they do not need to be tested.

It's okay for Bush the Second to have been a cocaine addict, a drunk and a failure in business and education yet, still become president while for smoking a joint one can lose their financial assistance.

There was a case here (in Canada) not too long ago about an MP (Member of Parliament) who was caught drinking and driving with cocaine and I am not sure if marijuana also on him ... he got a slap on the wrist for drinking and driving - I do not even think he lost his license as most people would. The unfairness is too much for me to accept.

Put all congressmen and members of parliament through drug-tests and I might agree with them. Again, as long as we go and pick just some portions of our society to do drug tests on, that is just not morally right.

When do you think we can get Mr. Weiner in for a drug test, I think he might need one? Then, we can move on to Hillary, Mr. Boehner and so on.

Lea Williams profile image

Lea Williams 11 months ago

Hello My Esoteric :)

First of all I wanted to ask you about this statement "if you are busted on a test, your children are not endangered, they can be provided for" ... can you please expound on that?

Also, as far as entering a program, this is great if you are a heroin addict or something (and a heroin addict probably isn't going to take good care of their children at any rate) but what if you are a marijuana user? Yes there are some heavy users and they would benefit from cutting back or quitting altogether, but there are those who use it in moderation or on rare occasions, and I really don't think they should have to go to rehab. Remember that marijuana generally stays in the system longer than most drugs, so they might test positive for it even if they haven't used it prior to testing. And just because it is illegal does not make it dangerous. There are many who use it for medical reasons, and just because they happen to be unlucky enough to live in a state which has not enacted medical marijuana laws now they are put into a group with hard core addicts? This does not seem right. Another issue I see with this is alcoholism. Do these tests screen for alcohol? Because alcoholics rarely make good parents.

As for employment drug tests, yes they may be screened prior to employment, but are they screened at any time thereafter? (Apart from safety-sensitive workers). I think that yearly would be fair, or whatever is equal to what welfare recipients would get.

I also thought I would mention that welfare is not all it is cracked up to be. Some seem to think it means you get a check every month for doing absolutely nothing, which may still be the case in some places, but it is not in my state of Illinois. While I do not receive welfare, I do happen to know what welfare recipients must do to get it here. You must work full time (or close to full time, I do not remember) at a non-profit agency, and for this you receive somehwere in the ballpark of $300 or so. Again, I don't remember the specific amount. This amount is for an entire month. All adults in the household must do this, so if there are two people, they both must do it, yet they still only receive that one amount. The reason why I know this is because my husband was laid off after the economy went kaput, and then after that developed a kidney issue, and was out of work long enough for his unemployment benefits to run out. I have been going to school for quite some time, and since I have Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue, working and school together has not been an option for me, so I did not have a job (though I would have gotten one at that point if I had been able to find one). So we found this out while trying to see what our options were for bringing in some income until one of us could find a job. Needless to say, we passed, since if we had done this, it would have been much harder to find a job, what with so much of our time going into working at a non-profit for slave wages.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

Thanks for starting to follow me Lea, I hope you like what I write.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

I agree with Lea, Mr. Happy, you and your unnamed writer do make good points, the extreme on both sides of the political spectrum but more so on the socially conservative right are very judgemental; it comes with the conservative religious belief system. Myself, I am moderately socially progressive. Even so, I believe people need to held responsible for their actions. That includes when a person receives assistance from the society they live in.

That said, I am not even close to being a black and white person, I know there is a lot of gray in the world and that needs to be taken into account. You may take comfort, as I pointed out earlier in a response, is that

- if you are busted on a test, your children are not endangered, they can be provided for;

- you can to if you enter a program, I believe.

- you are not tested everytime you receive assistance, just the first time and annually thereafter, I think

- if you use in the scenario you gave and get caught, you are one of the unluckiest people in the world because of the odds of you going to get tested while there are drugs still in your system at detectable levels is pretty small unless you used the day or two before; if you did, they you are pretty dumb.

- in the State of Florida, virtually ALL State workers receive Pre-employment drug tests, anybody in a safety-sensitive job gets randomly tested and I think that included the police and fire department.

- In America, about the only segment of society that doesn't have an active drug testing program of some description are your hotel and resturant service workers, professional services like lawyers and accountants, Information Technology services, and, believe it or not, most federal workers; I was never tested in my 25 years of service and I worked at some pretty high levels at one time or another.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

First, I want to scold a bit: Please y'all, voting is anonymous, please express your opinion this way whether you comment or not. Thank you :-)

Cooldad: Couldn't agree more other than your point regarding why rich people wanting to serve in public office. Now, let me say first, I truly suspect Scott's motives for being in office and I rue the fact that he and I share the same name, it is my middle name but I have had much longer than he, lol. But, by and large, I think most people who want to serve in public office, rich or poor, do so because they really want to try to make a positive difference for their constituancy, at least to start with. That is also the reason a lot of people serve as civil servants, it certainly isn't the high regard we are held in.

To be honest, I am reasonably well off, with a partnership in a small company that is bumping right along and retired twice from the military and the federal civil service plus I am learning how to trade options in the stock market. I say all of that so I can tell you that I would jump at the chance to serve my country again in a role where I believe my talents could make a difference if it was done in a way that wouldn't hurt my company, and, compensation wouldn't really play much of role.

Lea Williams profile image

Lea Williams 11 months ago

Mr. Happy makes some excellent points. ;)

Mr. Happy profile image

Mr. Happy Level 7 Commenter 11 months ago

"I was reading your comments that you made on My Esoteric's article on drug testing for welfare recipients. Just wanted to say that I agree with you, and I am happy to see people who are compassionate around, since it seems there is so much in the way of judgmental attitudes and such. I think welfare drug testing is absolutely wrong for so many reasons that I won't necessarily get into, but I appreciated the comment about the need to possibly dumpster dive once denied due to drug use. =)

I mean seriously, what if a parent lights up a joint every now and then? Does this mean their children should have to suffer because the state cut them off? Does this make them unfit parents? I don't think so. I do think there are people out there that hurt their children with drug use (my dad sure did) but I believe this is an extreme way of going about things.

Anyway, I've said my piece... =) Cheers!"

This is an email I received today Mr. Esoteric. I am not saying who it was because as I checked your blog again - I do not see this person to have commented here. Obviously he/she was afraid of the wrath of judgmental people so, the name will remain hidden. If people were less mean, people such as this person might have engaged into a conversation.

So, I guess we're back to this conversation. I do speak for others - or so it seems anyway. I will try to keep the ego in check.

So, let's say I am on welfare and I have kids (none of it is true but lets just say for the argument's sake). If I have a friend that comes over and lights a joint out of which I take a few puffs, like Bill Clinton or Obama for example - is that worth cutting off the food from my children's mouths? Is that a good reason to send people on the street? Is that justifiable?

To Mr. Fisher now. "I say test them all" - that sounds like you're testing rats or mice or something. Get a hold of yourself Sir! We're all the same once you peel-off your skin.

I suppose I am not in my right mind to be opposing drug-testing. You know what ... I will agree for drug testing if every social service person also goes on drug testing. So, all politicians, social workers, cops, paramedics and so on. Get all of them to test for drugs and I will be fine with it.

It's when you select just one portion of the population to do such tests on that I have a problem with it. It's morally wrong! But hey, I'm crazy and out of my mind so I guess you will just ignore what I have to say.

cooldad profile image

cooldad Level 4 Commenter 11 months ago

Great hub, well said. I am a Florida resident, I don't care for Scott at all, but he's right on with this issue. I think it's great, even if he profits from it. One of my main issues with Scott is why would anyone that rich want to be in public office??? He should be living on an island somewhere counting his money.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

Thanks for the comment GNelson and agree with all you said. I am proud to be firmly entrenched in the Progressive camp for most of my life but nevertheless, to the astonishment of so many Conservatives, as firmly believe that individuals and businesses should be responsible for their own actions and suffer the consequences for bad behavior. That is a maxim that knows no philosophical boundary, really, it is just that the Conservatives have taken that as a mantra and the Progressives and Liberals have let them.

I fully support Gov Scott's drug program and, at the same time, hope to hell he becomes the first Florida governor ever recalled from office. The drug testing, when you think about it, can only benefit those drawing welfare in long run.

GNelson profile image

GNelson Level 4 Commenter 11 months ago

I live in Florida. Every day I take a walk and see homeless people. I also see homeless families - you know the kind with kids. I talk to them and hear there stories and know that any one of us could join their ranks under the right circumstances. Gov. Scott has no clue how he affects these people.

It is worderful how businessman/governor Scott is against all business regulation and for for any regulations for individuals.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

Thanks for your comment Jed. Yep, only one other State tried, Michigan, and a federal court shot their law down, so they dropped it; I am not sure why. Other States try non-testing protocols but I don't know how successful those are.

Jed Fisher profile image

Jed Fisher Level 3 Commenter 11 months ago

I'm horrified to find out, welfare recipients have not been getting tested for all these years, that this is something new, and just who in thier right mind would oppose drug testing for welfare recipients?

Thank you for bringing this to light. I say test them all, nationwide. Drug testing gets results.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

Enjoy the forrest My. Happy.

Mr. Happy profile image

Mr. Happy Level 7 Commenter 11 months ago

I pray for everyone who is battling illnesses. I wish good health onto this world and I wish good health for Mother Earth as well.

May Wakan Tanka walk with You Mr. Esoteric.

(I understand your position regarding the drug-testing. Do I agree? It's not important now. Thank you for explaining. I'm off to the forest. Cheers!)

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

Not outrageous at all, Mr. Happy. Actually, after the Conservatives passed welfare reform in the late 1990's and President Clinton signed it into law, people can get assistance for only three years before they are cut off. There is a lot of free assistance to help people train for and to find work and get off the welfare treadmill.

This law doesn't start until July 1 and everybody is on notice now; the test is a urine test which, for everything but THC, only goes back a few days. THC can be detected back up to a couple of weeks if it is heavy use. So people have a choice to make right now.

There is also provisions in the law to provide for free, I think, drug treatment programs should the user choose to use it. If they successfully complete it, they can reapply. Also, other provisions of the law protect any children that may be involved by providing for a third party to receive the childrens assisance for them.

America also has a very large underground society of homeless (bums, in another time) whose ranks have been swelled by families dislocated from our financial meltdown. There is a large private and religious support system to try to help these individuals out. For those who refuse this assistance, yes, some do, they do live out of dumpsters, which, if they no where to look, is often well stock with editable food that is escess and not scrap.

I used to have a beutiful immune system for most of my 63 years; very few colds, a rare flu, not even a broken bone; those are still true. But, I hope you haven't done what I did and mistreat it like let it get to 250 lbs at 5'11"; I am down to 200 lb now. It started falling apart at about 56. It started out with an enlarged prostate, which was fortunate really because it allowed my Dr. to catch my prostate cancer before it was too late in 2007 when I had a successfull prostecomy. In 2008, diabetes II visited me along with previously diagnosed but poorly treated high blood pressure. I also have Alzheimers on two sides of my family early, self-diagnosed (always dangerous, lol) symptoms. Now my Russian born Dr. has me rock solid in all those things she can control and is treating me for what she thinks may be early signs of Alzeimers.

Mr. Happy profile image

Mr. Happy Level 7 Commenter 11 months ago

Mr. Esoteric, I obviously know very little about this, or about anything that has to do with tests, doctors and such.

My apology if I sound completely outrageous. I am trying to learn things.

What would a recipient of social assistance do once he or she is cut-off from their support for testing positive?

Do they just find a dumpster to live in ( I know those are fairly good - there is even food in them sometimes) ...

Thank you for your kind words regarding my health: I have a great personal doctor: my immune system.

My Esoteric profile image

My Esoteric Hub Author 11 months ago

Tony - Your two points weigh-in as well, drug-free people tend to have more movtivation to find and keep work.

Mr. Happy - I commend you for your good health. Just for clarity, although I understand your view, drug tests in America are rarely done by blood draw, are directly observed only in the military or under special circumstances, such as evidence of cheating, directly observed, instead it is almost always peeing in a cup in private, not even the collector watches.

Thank you, Cardelean. I was sort of blown away with the degree of unemployment among those drawing welfare and the disparity between the employed and unemployed.

cardelean profile image

cardelean Level 7 Commenter 11 months ago

You and I seem to have very similar life views. I am for/against many of the things that you listed at the beginning. You provide some interesting things to consider in your hub and do a great job of presenting the pros and the cons. I am in FULL agreement with you on this issue. I work in a very low income school district (in Michigan by the way). Most of my families are on some sort of government assistance. I understand that the cost of the test would be a stretch for them but I still feel it's a necessary evil. Privacy invasion? Too bad. There are many jobs in the world, and sports teams as you pointed out, olympics, etc. that require drug testing. It is a matter of keeping others safe. I think your idea about the drivers license is great too.

Mr. Happy profile image

Mr. Happy Level 7 Commenter 11 months ago

I personally do not go to the doctor - I have not been to one in ... I honestly cannot remember in how long. With that in mind, I would not let anyone poke me with anything; I would not give away any bodily fluids of any kind, etc.

From your article I understand that Americans have been peeing in tubes with an audience for quite some time: "test the whole company" - I'm thinking cattle here lol ... that's ... I don't know - I'm speechless (or word-less).

This is just a crazy European talking though, so pay no attention to me.

I have never done a drug test and I will never do one - personal choice.

Interesting read. Cheers!

tony0724 profile image

tony0724 11 months ago

If I gotta pay their bills the least they can do is get tested ! And in fact maybe put able bodied welfare recipients to work repairing our infrastructure.

Submit a Comment
Members and Guests

Sign in or sign up and post using a hubpages account.



    • No HTML is allowed in comments, but URLs will be hyperlinked
    • Comments are not for promoting your Hubs or other sites

    Please wait working